rexall
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Wed 2727 Jun 07, 9 am Post subject: On anxiety and panic (from the REBT-CBT Froum Yahoogroup) |
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From the
Wed 27 Jun 07, 9:28 a.m.
Hi,
Well, as I eluded to in another post, if you CANNOT accept it, if you really, really CANNOT, then I guess you just have to continue to suffer.
However, it is important to remember that acceptance is rarely gratuitous. You have to work at it, which in a sense is a paradox, but holds true nonetheless. You can work on acceptance from different angles. The most obvious is to simply be humble enough to realize that when you say things such as "I understand it 'logically' or 'intellectually', but . . . " simply means that you don't believe what you are saying. If you don't believe what you are saying, you need to continue to dispute and dispute and dispute until you begin to "get it" and those so called deeper levels. CBT offers up many more techniques for dealing with irrational thinking beyond the orthodox ABC's of REBT. Burns describes over 50 different techniques for dealing with irrational thinking and other problems, and suggests that you try many of them until you find one that works. After you have worked with ABC's, the next line of attack is often a "cost benefit analysis" will help you to become more "ready" to relinquish your problem, and then the disputing may go "deeper" and more effectively.
The other thing is to realize, whether you like it or not, that the modern sense of dealing with all forms of anxiety is that acceptance is much more effective than resistance or trying to control or even "cure" anxiety. There is not doubt that panic and other forms of anxiety are extremely uncomfortable. Maybe that is not strong enough a statement. The last "good one" I had, I had to take myself from Shekou to Hong Kong on a ferry boat at 7:30 in the morning to see a doctor, wondering if I was going to die of a heart attack on the damn boat! I think I was more scared of going to a hospital in China than dying on the boat, but that's another story. No one should underestimate how distressing these panic events can be.
But they CAN be faced and dealt with and resolved. In the incident I mentioned, my first line of rational thinking was to obtain the medical fact that it was a panic attack, not a heart attack. There was more work to do, but that information was the first step that allowed me to calm down and realize that no matter how uncomfortable the experience was, I was not having a heart attack, and I was not going to die at that time.
You can practice acceptance directly (Gary Emery) buy simply affirming and acknowledging that you accept reality. It's "accept", not "approve of", or are "resigned to", but simply begin by accepting that reality is reality:
"I accept that I still feel really scared and intimidated by the thought of panic attacks . . . and I choose to create my vision of of really understanding that I CAN experience these things without gong crazy, etc."
Finally, in many cases, the long-term, generalized solution to panic disorder may be to discover and deal with some important lifestyle or relationship or other issue you have been avoiding.
Aloha,
Rex
Someone wrote:
> Hey Rex
>
> Long time no hear ! !
>
> I also have found with my clients and also with myself.... that I understand all you have written logically but at a depper level we obviously cannot accept it otherwise we would not be afraid of the anxiety /panic attacks etc.... What are your thoughts on this?
>
> Cheers
>Someone
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Someone else
> To: REBT-CBT-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:04 AM
> Subject: [REBT-CBT-FORUM] Re: Help with disputing panicky thought
>
> Thanks Ohev1another and Rex.
> I deeply appreciate it.
> By the way, I am curious though I know this logically at a deeper
> level I don't accept it.
> Is that why we have to WRITE as opposed to merely READING in REBT?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Someone
> in India
>
> --- In REBT-CBT-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, Rex Alexander <rexall@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Tue 26 Jun 07, 8:34 a.m.
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Ohev1another's rational arguments are right on, and it would be a
> good
> > idea to continue to dispute and elaborate on that theme until you
> begin
> > to see the truth in it. However, along those lines--and your
> disputing
> > just might lead you there--are the thoughts and emotions
> underlaying the
> > rather pat statement "I will never get over my panic attacks and
> anxiety
> > disorder." When you think about that statement, how does it make
> you
> > feel? And what other (possibly irrational) thoughts does that in
> turn
> > bring up? I'm no mind reader, thank gawd, but you might look
> around for
> > feelings of
> >
> > discouragement
> > frustration
> > despair
> > resentment
> >
> > And thoughts about dealing with anxiety being *too difficult. Not
> > fair. Terrible *and* awful.** *That you *should* be able to
> handle the
> > problem better, and have already solved it by now.
> >
> > The rational response to *"never"* is the same as it is to
> *"can't"*.
> > If you *can't *(I mean if you really, really, literally *can't*),
> then
> > why even bother writing to us? Just go back out there and
> continue to
> > suffer and put up with this affliction as best as you can. If you
> can't
> > do anything about it, then there is no reason to put out the
> effort, or
> > to continue to upset yourself about it.
> >
> > *HOWEVER, *If what you mean is "So far I have been not been
> successful
> > in getting over my panic disorder, but if I can change my
> approach, get
> > different or additional help, work harder or differently, then
> perhaps I
> > *CAN*.overcome my anxieties. Others have, so there is every reason
> to
> > conclude that I can as well, if I am willing to do whatever it
> takes.
> >
> > This is coming from a position of strength, and will allow you to
> > approach the problem proactively and creatively rather than from
> > depression, despair and frustration.
> >
> > BTW, while I still deal with generalized anxiety and other types
> of
> > anxiety, it is rather manageable, and I have not had a panic
> attack in
> > nearly ten years.
> >
> > Aloha,
> >
> > Rex
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ohev1another wrote:
> > > --- In REBT-CBT-FORUM@yahoogroups.com, "sunbeam65" < m65@>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >> Can anyone help me dispute:
> > >> "I will never get over my panic attacks and anxiety disorder."
> > >>
> > >> Thanks in advance,
> > >>
> > >> Someone else> > >>
> > >>
> > > Can you predict the future? Never is an extremely long time.
> > > Hasn't your anxiety been less at times and more other times?
> This shows
> > > there is variability and little in life stays the same.
> > > I have been a therapist for many years and have seen patients
> whose
> > > anxiety comes and goes.
> > > What evidence do you have that you will never get over your
> panic
> > > attacks and anxiety disorder?
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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