Nycki
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Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Fri 2525 Jan 08, 8 am Post subject: Chapter 2 - Worry: Sharks in the Swimming Pool |
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Chapter 2 – Worry: Sharks in the Swimming Pool
I love this quote of Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533 – 1592)
“My life has been full of terrible misfortunes, most of which never happened”
There was one thing in the chapter that I wish to ask about as its not something that I instantly relate to. It says that we can have extra adrenaline in situations without anxiety/fear….eg like when competitive ppl play a sport, or when people have sex. I can’t say I ever considered adrenaline at use in these situations. Maybe its coz we know adrenaline surges to be a major part of panic attacks, that it’s hard to see our bodies as being that effected by adrenaline without us noticing it. How can we have a mild adrenaline surge without noticing it? Can you please explain that more to me?
Also…what is the proof that people don’t feel anxiety when performing a competitive sport or during sex? I would imagine that anyone who cares about their performance in any given situation is going to feel a level of anxiety and experience a level of adrenaline. OR maybe I misunderstand your meaning of anxiety?
Hrmm….
Nycki
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Hi Nycki,
I'm not an expert, but if I'm not mistaken, I experience a mild
adrenaline surge after drinking a cup of coffee, and that's partly
responsible for the pleasure I get from coffee. (And I sometimes,
but not always, experience anxiety after drinking coffee). A similar
thing would happen to a greater extent if I were to use amphetamine
or cocaine. Again, this might cause unpleasant anxiety, and would
perhaps be more likely to than coffee, but it would also be quite
likely to feel quite pleasant, at least in the short term. (Another
part of the mechanism for increased pleasure would be increased
production of dopamine in the nervous sytem). Experiencing
heightened levels of adrenaline is not necessarily unpleasant.
I'm not much of a sporty type, so I can't comment on the sports
issue, but I think I can say I've fairly frequently had sex without
experiencing anxiety. :)__._,_.___
Hi Rupert...
Thank u for ur post! I jes wonder if perhaps experiencing anxiety can be something that we are not even aware of it when its happening to us. So maybe u do experience anxiety when having sex and u jes dont know it! I mean...are u not jes as likely to have the hidden concern of 'failing' during sex, jes like I assume others would too? Wouldnt it take a very 'cocky' person to not care if their performance was enjoyable to the other person? (Please dont take it personally when u read 'U' in this post!) Think of it like a IB...its hidden from automatic view, but that doesnt make it any less 'there' or any less able to affect us in subtle ways.
I jes feel that there is a level of anxiety with everything that we do...we are jes most often not aware of it as its so small. A good example is ur cup of coffee....would most ppl even notice a surge when a regular drinker of coffee? I noticed it when I hadnt had coffee for a long time...but when I drunk it regularly throughout the day I never had those same symptoms of caffine use.
Hrmm....I am still pondering the difference between anxiety and excitement.
Hi guys,
I believe dopamine and serotonin affects our "pleasure" center and adrenaline is what sparks our "fight or flight" response. Norepinephrine and Epinephrine are the chemicals that make up adrenaline. When you feel like you are in danger, alot of adrenaline is released to give you the physical energy to run away.
Adrenaline is at work all of the time.
vic
Nycki,
You asked:
> what is the proof that people don't feel anxiety when performing a
> competitive sport or during sex?
If they're not making demands on themselves or on the situation, then they would be highly motivated to perform well, without the "musty" thinking that causes anxiety.
Best, Michael
Michael R. Edelstein, Ph.D.
Clinical Psychologist
San Francisco
415-673-2848 (24 hours)
Author of Three Minute Therapy:
(with David Ramsay Steele, Ph.D.)
Features help for anxiety, depression,
relationships, panic attacks and addiction
*A Quality Paperback Book Club/Book-of-the-Month Club Selection
Tue 15 Jan 08, 6:17 p.m.
This is something that is so important, that unfortunately, we need to keep going back to again and again. The repetition may be boring to those who already "get it", yet is remains a slippery and elusive concept for many. More importantly, it is something that reviews and critics of REBT love to misunderstand, misinterpret and misrepresent. The gaol of REBT is NOT to try to get rid of emotion and go through life maintaining a "flat affect." That is a symptom of psychosis. Nor is it to try to replace a negative emotion with something wildly inappropriate such a "Moonie" or similar cult member who remains relentlessly smiling and cheerful even in the midst of bad news and severe events. Nor is the gaol to operate totally from logic while strenuously suppressing any and all emotion such as Star Trek's Mr. Spock.
As Dr. Edelstein explains better than I, "motivation" expresses "concern" not "anxiety", and it is perfectly natural, positive and appropriate to be motivated to perform well whether in sex, love, work, sports or anything else that is important to us.
However, "I must do well" provokes anxiety which makes doing well even more difficult.
Add ". . . and if I don't do well, it will terrible and I won't be able to stand it" and you ramp up the anxiety.
Add ". . . and if I don't do well--as I absolutely must--then I am a bad person!" and you get guilt and shame which provokes so called "self esteem" issues.
The trick is, as Nycki says, to find the right balance, particularly if, like me, you have a background of addictions and grew up on a toxic or dysfunctional or emotionally unstable environment. In any event, this may not be easy for a lot of us. It was a long learning curve for which I still work on on a daily basis. And I still don't get it right all the time. But--at least in my experience and from my perspective--learning to distinguish between healthy and unhealthy emoting, and moving away form unhealthy toward healthy is the one of the core principles of REBT.
Aloha,
Rex |
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